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Brian,<BR>
<BR>
Ha!<BR><BR>
As we discussed previously, 14h2d forbids asking to REPLACE <BR>
a clock, not forbidding correction of the settings.<BR>
<BR>
I'm done!<BR>
<BR>
DuWayne<BR>
<BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
To: BrianWallChess@Yahoogroups.com; Chess_Improvement@Yahoogroups.com; brianwall-chesslist@lists.taom.com<BR>From: BrianWallChess3@Taom.com<BR>Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:04:39 -0600<BR>Subject: [BrianWallChess] TD dispute rages on, I need a TD ruling [1 Attachment]<BR><BR><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none"> </SPAN>
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<DIV id=ecxygrp-text><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12px">[<A style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="http://sn122w.snt122.mail.live.com/mail/RteFrame_15.1.3020.0910.html?pf=pf#TopText">Attachment(s)</A> from Brian Wall included below]</SPAN> <BR><BR>
<BR><BR>----- Forwarded message from Harvey Lerman <<A href="mailto:harveylerman@embarqmail.com">harveylerman@<WBR>embarqmail.<WBR>com</A>> -----<BR>Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:22:13 -0400<BR>From: Harvey Lerman <<A href="mailto:harveylerman@embarqmail.com">harveylerman@<WBR>embarqmail.<WBR>com</A>><BR>Reply-To: Harvey Lerman <<A href="mailto:harveylerman@embarqmail.com">harveylerman@<WBR>embarqmail.<WBR>com</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [BrianWall-ChessLis<WBR>t] Duwayne Langseth, Email #4,on I need a TD<BR>ruling [1 Attachment]<BR>To: Brian Wall <<A href="mailto:brianwallchess3@taom.com">brianwallchess3@<WBR>taom.com</A>>, <A href="mailto:BrianWallChess@Yahoogroups.com">BrianWallChess@<WBR>Yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A>,<BR>Brian Wall Chesslist <<A href="mailto:brianwall-chesslist@lists.taom.com">brianwall-chesslist<WBR>@lists.taom.<WBR>com</A>><BR><BR>The clock can be corrected for all incorrect settings except for the case we are<BR>addressing here. Nowhere, even in Section 16, does it say that if a clock is<BR>used that was not set for time delay, that later in the game time delay be<BR>turned on because a player decides to do so. But it explicitely says that there<BR>is no rule to allow this (I.e. TD Tip after 14h2d, for example.).<BR><BR>Harvey<BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Brian Wall<BR>To: <A href="mailto:BrianWallChess@Yahoogroups.com">BrianWallChess@<WBR>Yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A> ; Brian Wall Chesslist<BR>Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:51 PM<BR>Subject: [BrianWall-ChessLis<WBR>t] Duwayne Langseth, Email #4,on I need a TD<BR>ruling [1 Attachment]<BR><BR>----- Forwarded message from DuWayne Langseth <<A href="mailto:duwaynelangseth@hotmail.com">duwaynelangseth@<WBR>hotmail.com</A>><BR>-----<BR>Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:32:53 -0600<BR>From: DuWayne Langseth <<A href="mailto:duwaynelangseth@hotmail.com">duwaynelangseth@<WBR>hotmail.com</A>><BR>Reply-To: DuWayne Langseth <<A href="mailto:duwaynelangseth@hotmail.com">duwaynelangseth@<WBR>hotmail.com</A>><BR>Subject: RE: [BrianWallChess] Damian Nash on I need a TD ruling [1<BR>Attachment]<BR>To: Brian Wall <<A href="mailto:brianwallchess3@taom.com">brianwallchess3@<WBR>taom.com</A>><BR><BR>Brian,<BR><BR>The TD Tip in 14h2d forbids asking for replacement of<BR><BR>one clock for another, rather than correcting the settings<BR><BR>of the clock in use.<BR><BR>The rules do give examples of instances when the clock<BR><BR>should be replaced and others when the clock settings<BR><BR>need to be corrected. To say that the clock can never<BR><BR>be corrected once the game starts, would discount times<BR><BR>for instance, when the delay was set absurdly high, say<BR><BR>at 2 minutes per move. Clearly in such a case, the TD<BR><BR>would correct the setting. Other examples demonstrating<BR><BR>that the settings should be corrected are provided in<BR><BR>Section 16.<BR><BR>DuWayne<BR><BR>To: <A href="mailto:BrianwallChess@Yahoogroups.com">BrianwallChess@<WBR>Yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A>; <A href="mailto:Chess_Improvement@Yahoogroups.com">Chess_Improvement@<WBR>Yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A>;<BR><A href="mailto:brianwall-chesslist@lists.taom.com">brianwall-chesslist<WBR>@lists.taom.<WBR>com</A><BR>From: <A href="mailto:BrianWallChess3@Taom.com">BrianWallChess3@<WBR>Taom.com</A><BR>Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:33:14 -0600<BR>Subject: [BrianWallChess] Damian Nash on I need a TD ruling [1 Attachment]<BR><BR>[Attachment(<WBR>s) from Brian Wall included below]<BR><BR>Apparently Patrick could have claimed a draw based on insufficient losing<BR>chances because of sudden death rules. Then his opponent could accept the draw<BR>or risk losing with a new delay.<BR><BR>Duwayne says a clock set wrong should be corrected when discovered, Damian<BR>says<BR>a clock cannot be changed once the game starts.<BR><BR>Duwayne and Damian both say the clock can be changed after a sudden death time<BR>control draw calim with less than 2 minutes of the clock.<BR><BR>BW<BR>-------<BR>Damian Nash<BR><BR>----- Forwarded message from <A href="mailto:chess@krusemer.com">chess@krusemer.<WBR>com</A> -----<BR>Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:13:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: <A href="mailto:chess@krusemer.com">chess@krusemer.<WBR>com</A><BR>Reply-To: <A href="mailto:chess@krusemer.com">chess@krusemer.<WBR>com</A><BR>Subject: Re: I need a TD ruling<BR>To: Brian Wall <<A href="mailto:brianwallchess3@taom.com">brianwallchess3@<WBR>taom.com</A>><BR><BR>Hi Brian. <BR><BR>A very similar situation occurred last weekend on one of the top boards at the<BR>Santa Fe Open, which I directed. The higher-rated player had a winning<BR>endgame but only seconds left on his analog clock. His opponent, who had<BR>plenty of time left, turned down a draw offer, expecting to win the time<BR>scramble. I stood by watching, unable to interfere with the game, but<BR>knowing that the player in the dire situation could make a legitimate claim,<BR>if<BR>only he knew how to. After the game (a draw by perpetual) I educated him<BR>about what he could have done:<BR><BR>1) Stop the clocks and make a claim of a draw based on "insufficient losing<BR>chances" (Section 14H of the USCF rule book).<BR><BR>2) The TD would not be able to adjudicate the game, because there were still<BR>too<BR>many complexities in the position, ruling the outcome is "unclear."<BR><BR>3) The TD would then be required to follow the procedure to resolve the<BR>situation, addressed in rule 14H2a (because digital clocks were readily<BR>available at that point).<BR><BR>4) The game would continue with a digital clock (with delay) substituted for<BR>the<BR>analog clock. <BR><BR>5) Important note: Half the claimants time would be removed from his<BR>clock. So, instead of 10-seconds on an analog clock, he would now have<BR>5-seconds on a digital clock, but with an extra 5-seconds per move because of<BR>the delay feature.<BR><BR>6) His opponent would then have to decide either to accept the draw offered<BR>through the claim or to risk losing a lost position.<BR><BR>The player in Santa Fe did not follow this procedure because of a complicating<BR>factor, one that he was already aware of. There is a "TD Tip" following<BR>section 14H2d that states:<BR><BR>"There is no rule allowing players, after the game has started, to ask for a<BR>properly set delay clock to be placed on their game, which would replace an<BR>analog clock or delay clock not set properly." <BR><BR>Alas, this very experienced tournament player had remembered this much of the<BR>rulebook, but not the sentences which immediately follow: "... Only a TD<BR>can<BR>initiate placing a clock with time delay capabilities on a game after a 14H<BR>claim [draw by insufficient losing chances] has been made... As a result, the<BR>player wishing to place a delay clock on the game must first make a 14H<BR>claim."<BR><BR>I hope this clarifies what your friend in Florida, and the TD, should have<BR>done<BR>in his situation. Please share this information with your list. It helps<BR>everyone if tournament players are clear about the rules!<BR><BR>Damian Nash<BR>USCF Senior TD<BR>Moab, Utah<BR><BR>PS -- as an aside, the player in question, who is a friend of mine and whom I<BR>like very much, lost a game that he shouldn't have lost because the flag fell<BR>on his analog clock. Then came the game I used in this example, where he<BR>drew<BR>a game which he should have won, again because of the analog clock. I<BR>believe<BR>he could have gone 3.5/4 and won the Santa Fe Open if only he didn't insist on<BR>using his own, ancient, analog clock!! But as we all know, time pressure<BR>stimulates the adrenal glands, and for some the rush of adrenaline seems to be<BR>unconsciously more important than the victory. Chess players are<BR>mysterious<BR>creatures! Buy a digital clock, people! :)<BR><BR>--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Brian Wall <<A href="mailto:brianwallchess3@taom.com">brianwallchess3@<WBR>taom.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>From: Brian Wall <<A href="mailto:brianwallchess3@taom.com">brianwallchess3@<WBR>taom.com</A>><BR>Subject: [BrianWall-ChessLis<WBR>t] I need a TD ruling<BR>To: <A href="mailto:Kledzian@mfi.net">Kledzian@mfi.<WBR>net</A>, <A href="mailto:BrianWallChess@Yahoogroups.com">BrianWallChess@<WBR>Yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A>,<BR><A href="mailto:Chess_Improvement@Yahoogroups.com">Chess_Improvement@<WBR>Yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A>, "Brian Wall Chesslist"<BR><<A href="mailto:brianwall-chesslist@lists.taom.com">brianwall-chesslist<WBR>@lists.taom.<WBR>com</A>><BR>Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:09 PM<BR><BR>------------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>-<BR>------------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>-<BR><BR>I have some TDs on my mailing list so I would like an objective opinion.<BR><BR>------------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>-<BR>------------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>-<BR><BR>Kevin R. Ledzian is a Denver born 1500 that lost to Danielle Rice I believe in<BR>the 2008 Florida Open.<BR><BR>His son had a winning position in the 2009 Florida Championship but noticed<BR>that<BR>his own clock was set incorrectly with no delay or increment. He didn't notice<BR>this until he was almost out of time, similar to the Tyler Hughes-Philipp<BR>Ponomarev time dispute a few years ago.<BR><BR>This also happened to poor Robert Ramirez against me in the 2007 CO Closed.<BR>I think he lost on time before he noticed there was not a delay like there was<BR>supposed to be. Ironically he had to appeal to the person who had set my<BR>clock,<BR>Dean Brown.<BR><BR>At this point Kevin's son was willing to settle for a draw but the TD said no<BR>and restarted his clock after which he lost on time in a few moves in a<BR>winning<BR>position.<BR><BR>Is there any official USCF policy about what happens when it is noticed -<BR>during, after or right near the the end of a game that the delay or increment<BR>has not been set up correctly. This is a fairly common situation and clear<BR>rules<BR>should be passed. Also what about claiming no losing chances in a won position<BR>with a few second left.<BR><BR>Brian Wall<BR><BR>except from Kevin Ledzian's email<BR><BR>Kevin Ledzian <<A href="mailto:Kledzian@mfi.net">Kledzian@mfi.<WBR>net</A>><BR><BR>This TD did not have a copy of the rule book, which I believe is a violation.<BR><BR>Patrick stated that he wanted to immediately appeal the floor TD?Ts decision,<BR>and<BR>was told ?ono, no, no?not possible.? I believe denying an appeal is a<BR>violation.<BR>The floor TD then unpaused the clock before Patrick was even seated. Patrick<BR>blitzed out a few moves in a won position before flagging. He was<BR>distraught.<BR>Patrick then sought out the chief TD (Blas Lugo) on his own, and was told<BR>nothing could be done because the game was over.<BR><BR>Kevin Ledzian <<A href="mailto:Kledzian@mfi.net">Kledzian@mfi.<WBR>net</A>><BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kevin R. Ledzian<BR><BR><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="CLEAR: both; FONT-SIZE: 1px; COLOR: #fff">.</DIV></DIV><IMG height=1 src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=12658404/grpspId=1705052932/msgId=4762/stime=1253595964/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3" width=1> <BR>
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</STYLE> <br /><hr />Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. <a href='http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1' target='_new'>Try Bing now</a></body>
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