<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>it would be possible to claim prior moves if the player had a scoresheet with the moves up to teh current position that reflected no captures or pawn moves. This is the paper tiger argument. I was referring to making a claim towards the fifty move rule of moves without a scoresheet. The opponent's scoresheet could not be used, and the player could not invoke witnesses or himself to vouchsafe for prior moves. <br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin: 5px 0px 5px 5px; padding-left: 5px; font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Brian Wall
<BrianWallChess3@Taom.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> BrianWallChess@Yahoogroups.com; Chess_Improvement@Yahoogroups.com; Brian Wall Chesslist <brianwall-chesslist@lists.taom.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, April 3, 2009 9:52:51 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [BrianWallChess] Jerry Maier weighs in - 50 Move Rule/TD Counts/Assists<br></font><br>
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<p>Often Chessmasters know more then TDs because this is our business. I believe<br>
Matthew O' Hara is wrong that previous moves towards a 50 move rule claim are<br>
invalid when the TD takes over. I believe TD Jerry Maier is wrong when he<br>
claims a TD or deputy keeping score at the player's behest under blitz duress<br>
( under 5 minutes, under one minute like me ) would invalidate the player's<br>
claims to three-fold repetition and 50 move rule. Can anyone further elucidate,<br>
please?<br>
<br>
Brian Wall<br>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -<br>
<br>
Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:15:48 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: Matthew OHara <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:oharamd%40sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oharamd%40sbcglobal.net">oharamd@sbcglobal. net</a>><br>
To: Brian Wall <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:BrianWallChess3%40Taom.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:BrianWallChess3%40Taom.com">BrianWallChess3@ Taom.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [BrianWallChess] Klaus Johnson - TD counting moves<br>
<br>
I would like to weigh in on the 50-move rule question. I looked it up at the<br>
Arvada library and found it on p 47, rule 14f4. The rule, loosely paraphrased,<br>
says that a player may invoke the 50 move rule by stopping the clocks and<br>
telling the director that he intends to claim a 50 move draw. The tournament<br>
director may appoint a deputy to count the moves or count himself. Of course<br>
the player can not claim any prior moves toward the 50 count. From my<br>
recollection the td has discretion in whether or not to assist the player in<br>
making the claim(counting the moves)<br>
<br>
Matthew O' Hara<br>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -<br>
Jerry Maier<br>
<br>
----- Forwarded message from <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pmjer77%40aim.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:pmjer77%40aim.com">pmjer77@aim. com</a> -----<br>
Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:44:12 -0400<br>
From: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pmjer77%40aim.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:pmjer77%40aim.com">pmjer77@aim. com</a><br>
Reply-To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:pmjer77%40aim.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:pmjer77%40aim.com">pmjer77@aim. com</a><br>
Subject: 50 Move Rule/TD Counts/Assists<br>
To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:BrianWallChess3%40taom.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:BrianWallChess3%40taom.com">BrianWallChess3@ taom.com</a><br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
Just a point of clarification. The phrase "Of course<br>
the player can not claim any prior moves toward the 50 count" is incorrect.<br>
5th Edition Rulebook, pg 47, 14F4, (a) If the director or the deputy will count<br>
moves, the count should begin by crediting moves already made and listed on the<br>
scoresheet of the player intending to claim. An opponent who believes a<br>
different number of moves have?been made should present this case if and when<br>
the count reaches 50.??<br>
<br>
In prior emails between myself and the USCF, the TD is allowed to keep score to<br>
keep a record for posterity, but claims may not be made on the basis of the TD<br>
keeping score.??Players give up that right when?the player?stops taking<br>
responsibility for that aspect of?his or her?game. Happy chess playing!<br>
<br>
Jerry Maier<br>
Mobile: ? ?719.660.5531<br>
Home/FAX: ?719.268.6970<br>
E-mail: ? <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:%3Fpmjer77%40aim.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:%3Fpmjer77%40aim.com">?pmjer77@aim. com</a><br>
<br>
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<!-- kill --><div><br><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 3px;">Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:15:48 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: Matthew OHara <<a rel="nofollow">oharamd@sbcglobal. net</a>><br>
To: Brian Wall <<a rel="nofollow">BrianWallChess3@ Taom.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [BrianWallChess] Klaus Johnson - TD counting moves<br>
<br>
I would like to weigh in on the 50-move rule question. I looked it up at the<br>
Arvada library and found it on p 47, rule 14f4. The rule, loosely paraphrased,<br>
says that a player may invoke the 50 move rule by stopping the clocks and<br>
telling the director that he intends to claim a 50 move draw. The tournament<br>
director may appoint a deputy to count the moves or count himself. Of course<br>
the player can not claim any prior moves toward the 50 count. From my<br>
recollection the td has discretion in whether or not to assist the player in<br>
making the claim(counting the moves)<br>
</blockquote><br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
Just a point of clarification. The phrase "<strong>Of course<br>
the player can not claim any prior moves toward the 50 count"</strong> is incorrect.<br>
5th Edition Rulebook, pg 47, 14F4, (a) If the director or the deputy will count moves, <strong>the count should begin by crediting moves already made and listed on the scoresheet of the player intending to claim</strong>. An opponent who believes a different number of moves have been made should present this case if and when the count reaches 50. <br>
<br>
In prior emails between myself and the USCF, the TD is allowed to keep score to keep a record for posterity, but claims may not be made on the basis of the TD keeping score. Players give up that right when the player stops taking responsibility for that aspect of his or her game. Happy chess playing!<br>
<br>
<div style="clear: both;">Jerry Maier<br>
Mobile: 719.660.5531 <br>
Home/FAX: 719.268.6970 <br>
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